So a couple of weeks ago, I was sitting with a couple of friends on a Thursday night having dinner. And one of the guys kept bringing up some interesting topics which made for some great conversation….until the bible was brought up. Then everything pretty much went to hell after that! Politeness went out the door and the pleasant conversations turned into a loud screaming debate! And for some reason I always end up being the devils advocate in every discussion, and that night I might as well have been the devil himself! Luckily some sane soul decided to intervene and pull out a packet of playing cards, and we were back at being friends again.
Let me back up a bit. What were we arguing about? Well its pretty scandalous actually. Here’s the topic: “Did God condone incest?” And if He did, why aren’t we all having incestuous relationships today?
Before you start going ‘hell no are you flipping mad’, let me refer you to the Old Testament. Incest everywhere! Right from the beginning! Adam and Eve had children. How do you think their children had children? Yes incest was rampant during those times. The big question was did God condone it?
One of the arguments that was presented that night went along the lines that God condoned and allowed incest to happen up to a certain point, linking it to DNA and science, where he then intervened and ended it when it was not scientifically viable to produce incestuous offspring. Others backed this argument up.
This argument had my blood pressure hitting the roof. SIN IS SIN IS SIN! God is separate from sin. He is Holy. He DOES NOT condone sin….EVER! Right from the beginning, right from Genesis, what did He say: “Let them have dominion over the earth.” In other words, He will not interfere with mans affairs (unless we give Him permission to do so in prayer according to His will). Period!
Their counter to my argument was ‘what do you think the flood was?’ The reasons for the flood I address in another post A Lost Defiled World. I was too pissed off on that Thursday evening to counter with legible thoughts, so I will briefly address this here. God did interfere because the ‘them‘ God had referred to in Genesis were His creations made in ‘His image and likeness’. ‘Them‘ had all but gone, thanks to the fallen angels breeding with women. ‘They‘ no longer had dominion but rather this was taken illegally by the offspring of God’s defiled gene. God, staying true to His word returned the dominion of the earth to ‘them‘ by wiping out the perversion/mutation that existed at the time aka nephilim. This was a necessary intervention by God as He is a God that stays true to His word…”let them have dominion”. This is all further covered in A Lost Defiled World, so you can head on there for further analysis on this topic.
Back to incest. I stand firm in my beliefs that sin is sin is sin and sin is not or ever will be condoned by God. Which brings us to the next question, ‘what is sin?’ Sin is anything that separates us from Him [Isaiah 59:2] aka anything that is against His will. Keep in mind, ‘HIS WILL’. Not your will, not my will….HIS WILL. If we can understand this, we will be able to somehow grasp the ‘acts of war’ God executed numerous times for ‘His’ people, which I further touch on in Is God Biased?
So why did incest happen? The same reason why murder happened, and why thieving happened and why rape happened etc etc etc. We are the products of an incestuous generation just as we are the product of a murderous generation…all in all we are the products of sin.
Sin happened when Adam and Eve went against God’s will and ate that damned fruit from the tree of knowledge. They consciously chose to sin, to go against God’s will for them. Everything after that was the consequences of the choice they made, i.e. incest, murder etc.
So a question on that night was that if it was okay back then, incest that is, why then aren’t we doing it now? This was countered by the science explanation with genes etc that’s mentioned above. A question I’d like you to consider first is: ‘When did incest happen and thrive, being widely adapted as acceptable behavior; and when did it stop, being adapted as unacceptable behavior and morally wrong’? Come to think of it, it all narrows down to one point in time….before Jesus and after Jesus!
Jesus came and revealed who God was. He made us see and understand God’s true nature. I think, and this is just my opinion, that incestuous relationships and the like only became ‘unacceptable’ when people came to know Jesus. The world did not get to know Jesus straight away though. He offended many. He revealed himself only to a few. These blessed few recorded His words and actions. We know these as the gospel. Only through self study of the gospel and revelation through the Holy Spirit can we truly know Jesus and through him God. And I believe this is what happened during those times after Christs death. And slowly, bit by bit, people got to know God and those things that once were okay became unacceptable.
[Side note: I do not in any way condone the actions of the early church and their quest for religious domination. Religion has nothing to do with God but everything to with mans corruptible nature and manipulation of human behavior. It was forbidden for anyone but a priest to read the bible in those days. So the Word was subject to the interpretations and agendas of the priest and ultimately the pope. Those found reading the bible for themselves were branded by the Catholic church as heretics and put to death. The bible itself was not widely available as it is now, but only those high up in the Catholic ranks. And when it was finally available after much persecution to the masses, people took it at face value! Read: The Dangers of Reading the Bible]
Before Jesus, Christians were like headless chickens, running around blind and lost, trying to figure out who God was and what they needed to do to get to heaven. Before Jesus and after the exile from Eden, the Holy Spirit was not around to give council as the councilor. People were left to their own whims, left to figure it all out themselves. And, as we all know, they failed at it miserably time and again. Sin was now in play and life was being lived away from God’s presence.
Imagine what God had to deal with in those times before Jesus. At a time when the Holy Spirit did not reside here on earth, but in Heaven. At a time when it was so difficult to commune with God. The world was filled with despicable sin (and still is), but yet in our sin God still used these sinners to do His will! He still used them despite their sinful nature. What did they have that all the rest did not? Their belief (and obedience) in God. And that’s all that God needs…our faith in Him. That was it. That was the key. Faith. Faith allowed God to send the Holy Spirit down to these believers who were then able to do wonderful things in obedience.
So yes, God did use the incestuous, murderous, thieving drunk. Did God condone these filthy acts? NO! That’s the thing about Grace. It is freely given to us who do not deserve it one little bit. But it is not ours to give, its His. God’s love knows no bounds…He loves us despite us!
After Jesus, people slowly started figuring things out. After Jesus died and rose again, the Holy Spirit was back! That’s the beauty of Calvary (where Jesus died). God’s spirit was back again to council and comfort and bring joy and peace and connect us again with God. And the Spirit was available to all of us at any time (which was not the case in the old testament). People were now able to be counselled on an individual level. People now had someone they could compare God to in order to understand him. Someone who walked like them, talked like them, went through trials JUST LIKE THEM. Jesus. Jesus took an impossible concept of God, and gave Him a face, made Him real, made Him relate-able.
After Jesus we were given the Christian bible (old testament and new testament…in the old testament believers who were predominantly Jewish had the Tanakh)…more importantly, the gospel. So we had the Holy Spirit, we had a better understanding of God through Jesus as man and as God, and we had His Word in the bible. Best believe people would be impacted!
In essence, this is what I believe impacted people to eventually accept behaviors such as incestuous relationships, polygamous marriages, mistreatment of women etc as wrong and thus slowly transforming behaviors and mindsets of Christians and in extension the world.
If we really looked at Jesus, not at religion or the rest of the bible in that matter (this is how the enemy confuses people by parading religions in their many forms as synonymous to God. God is separate from religion I cannot emphasis that enough). Just Jesus. If we focused on Him and learned through Him alone, we will all finally find our purpose, we will all find that elusive joy, we will finally all be at peace!
JESUS IS THE ANSWER!